1. Warming up with World War II in Reverse and your emotional response to the novel's ending
- As you watch: Which images stand out to you? What's it like to watch a war in reverse?
- After you watch: Reread the ending of Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close, starting on page 325. What effect did these final pages and images have on you? How do these final pages connect to the video you just watched?
2. Considering the final stage of the archetypal hero's journey and your intellectual response to the novel's ending
In the final stage of the hero's journey, the hero returns home, but he has gained a new understanding of the world around him. He can no longer live in fear of the future nor regret over the past.
- To what extent does Oskar (or the grandmother or grandfather) fulfill the final stage of the hero's journey?
- In other words, how does he return home? What's his new understanding of things? To what extent has he confronted his fear of the future/regret over the past? Why does Foer put the ending in reverse?
3. Enjoying our final fishbowl discussion of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close: Page 307-end
4. Wrapping up with our responses to the focus question
HW:
1. For Friday: GO DIRECTLY TO THE THEATER. BRING SOMETHING TO WRITE WITH AND ON.
2. For Monday:
- Bring in five items that hold significance to you (an old, printed photo, an object, something you carry around for luck, a gift you received, a letter, etc).
- Reading journal conferences will continue next week. Please make sure ALL JOURNALS ARE COMPLETE BY MONDAY.
Why do you think Foer ended the book with Oskar's backwards story?
ReplyDeleteIn the end, Oskar is sorrowful, but you can see in his last words that he is not in denial about his father's death anymore. He is in pain, but he sees that there would have been nothing he could have done or invented that would have aided his father's life.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Foer decided to end the book like this versus having a happy or satisfying ending?
ReplyDeleteI think that Foer ended the book the way he did because 9/11 did not have a happy ending eiher. People moved on and began their lives again, but their loved ones never came back to life. Oskar's happiness resided in his father and the only way the book could have ended happily is if the dad came home.
DeleteThe video and the last couple pages of ELIC were similar because the video showed the war in reverse and at the end of the book Oskar was thinking about how everything would have played out if his dad went threw that day in reverse all the way back to the 6th borough story.
ReplyDeleteto me, it seemed like the ending is showing us that Oskar is starting to understand that he doesn't know and probably will never know how his dad died.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Foer have this huge search for Oskar, just for it to not really be resolved?
ReplyDeleteThe bombs being lifted back into the aircraft stood out because if something went wrong and they wouldn't have been dropped, so many people would have survived and so much would change. These final pages were depressing because of how Oskar looked back on the whole event with his father and how he remembered that night so well. It makes us question why anyone would want to do something so awful and how we would be now if it hadn't had happened and we could just reverse time but unfortunately we can't do so yet.
ReplyDeleteThese final pages and images effected me in a positive way because it seemed that even though Oskar was extremely sad, he was much more at peace with what had happened to his father than before.
ReplyDeleteThe final pictures left a real sinking feeling in my stomach. I have a personal connection to the 9/11 attacks, so having to read about is and then having the picture of someone falling is a little unsettling
ReplyDeleteWhat change in Oskar was Foer trying to show in the end of the book
ReplyDeletei think it shows that Oskar is starting to realize that he can't bring his father back, and that he's coming to peace with the fact that he's gone
DeleteAt the end I think it showed that Oskar finally accepted his dad's death. I think that the message was that sometimes you have to go backwards in order to move forward.
ReplyDeleteThe ending gave me an understanding of why the picture of the falling man was there but it was saddening to read the end because Oskar went on this long journey for this key and imagining everything going in reverse to the night before the worst day.
ReplyDeleteI think that Oskar returns home in a way by the end of the book for multiple different reasons. I think that one is that by the end of the book Oskar has stopped looking for things and now can just spend some much needed time at home with his mother. Another reason why I think that Oskar made it home was that he stopped looking for his dad, and began to remember him, I think in this he was able to find more comfort. I also think that Oskar maybe could have felt better when we was imagining things backwards, maybe it took some fear out of everything.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure why Foer wrote this last passage. Is imagining an terrible event never happened a good thing? It seems pointless to me.
ReplyDeleteI think in some ways it was Oskar's way of finding peace. Oskar was a fear of a lot of different things, and I think that imagining it backwards may give him some relief to go on and actually be able to do things without being held back by fear.
DeleteI understand your point, but doesn't imagining things as if they didn't happen give one a false sense of hope that will disappear once one steps back into reality as it is?
Deletethe effect this had on me personally was giving hope. Especially when Fore was talking about the man falling, but in reverse I thought of it as if he was flying. That's why Oskar is always talking about birds and the images of birds throughout the book. then again it reverts back to "everything happens for a reason" this significant event will lead Oskar to fining himself in the ways he wasn't able to before. he now knows his grandfather and has a closer bond to his grandmother. in the midst of tragedy their is beauty.
ReplyDeleteThe final pages left me almost wondering about how in a society lots of us would like to undue things, and how little problems or mistakes can change your whole life. It seems as if Oskar is almost coming to terms with the idea of his mom falling in love, which relating it to the hero's journey is what resulted in Oskar's transformation. In my mind, I feel he reversed the pictures relating it to his father, hoping he as found his inner peace and safety.
ReplyDeleteThese final images were bittersweet for me. After all he has gone through he finally found his way home, but unfortunately he is still missing his best friend.
ReplyDeleteThese last pages make you think back to the last time you talked to someone that passed away. It is a very sad but happy to think about that memory. After that moment nothing with ever be the same just like the World War II video.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the ending of the book was a good way to tie it all together. While reading it I was wondering what it would be like to see my life rewind. I was also wondering do you think that Oskar is at peace with himself?
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar knows what he has to d now, with coping and learning to step into the next stage of grief. it will make him a better person in the future, striving to do better, which could be becoming more like his father.
DeleteI think it's significant that Oskar doesn't invent things that could have saved his dad in the last chapter like he does in the first chapter. The way he thinks over the events as they happened instead of how to prevent them shows that he's come to terms with the fact that he can't change what happened.
DeleteThe effect that the pages and the video had on me was that it showed me that there is meaning to life and if you reverse videos like that people would still be alive and they would be living with there family or at least someone they care about like Oskar's father if that is thomas in the photos.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Foer sends Oskar on this huge journey throughout the book just so that the book ends without a big significant ending?
ReplyDeletethe journey was to discover his self. Oskar was so busy living everyone else dreams, he thought it was his dream too. he was able to communicate with otter people and make relationships, that he might not of created if this significant event did not happen.
DeleteI think that even though the ending wasn't very big it was still significant because he ended up finding his way home and having closure with his fathers death
DeleteThroughout the book Oskar's journey was to overcome his fears and become who his is now. Foer wanted to mostly show that Oskar came to peace instead of him having heavy boots.
DeleteI feel like the author had sent Oskar on this big journey with not really a significant ending to show how many people have to come to terms with problems that affect them. It seems Foer wanted to relate this book more towards what life lessons then making it an big ending. The whole idea seems to be to put Oskar on this journey to find 'himself' and not be in a circle of depression. On page 323 Foer writes Oskar saying, "I promise I'm going to be better soon." Here is when Oskar seems to come to terms with his Dad's passing trying to find a new light and not shield himself from happiness like his grandfather.
DeleteI agree with Kaily that the journey was about Oskar finding himself. One clue that might support this is how Oskar discovers his card in Mr. Black's biography index instead of his dad's on page 286, showing that while he was trying to see if his dad meant anything to the people with the last name black, he was meant something to them.
Delete*was meaning
DeleteThe last few pages of the book can be connected to the video we watched in the way that they both showed events starting with chaos and destruction, and ending with peacefulness and simplicity. The go from the result, to what it was like before the tragedies occurred. It puts into perspective how things can change so much, and how different they can become.
ReplyDeleteThe effect of the final pages on me was it made me feel how much relief Oskar got in the end. The ending of the book connects to the video by showing the results and what it like at the beginning.
ReplyDeleteI agree with relief, that's what Oskar needed. I think he was emotionally drained from his journey, and that's okay. he was content with his journey and his discovery's, hes ready for the next one.
DeleteDo you think Oskar will regret not doing anything on the night before the worst day that could've possibly changed his Dad's fate?
ReplyDeleteI think whenever someone close dies people wonder what they could've done differently but I don't think Oskar will regret it because it's not like him and his dad were on bad terms or anything. At some point everyone has to accept that you can't change the past and it's only going to be hard on you if you keep asking what you could've done differently
DeleteI think that Oskar kind of will. But over time I think that he will forgive himself and move on. With him moving on he can become closer to his mother and open up to more people.
DeleteIt seems as if whenever a loved one dies, people try to play the past hours/days before in reverse to see where they could have stepped in to change fate. This relates to the last two pages of the book where Oskar replays it in reverse coming to the conclusion of them being safe and unharmed. This is human nature, by this, it is extremely difficult to try and reopen themselves back up after a healing process.
Delete"They were in an accident" pg 315
ReplyDeleteIs Oskar starting to let Ron in knowing that Ron lost his family, too?
I think that before Oskar wasn't able to connect with Ron before but now that they're able to connect on losing a loved-one.
DeleteI agree, I feel Oscar is starting to open up with Ron.
DeleteI think that Oskar didn't understand why Ron was always with his mom but now he understands and I think he respects Ron more because they have both lost loved ones
DeleteDid their similar experiences of losing someone suddenly and out of no where affect Oskar's feelings toward Ron?
Delete"did you get divorced?" "he laughed. PG 315
Deleteduring this moment I feel as if everyone is growing from the grief. For Ron to be able to laugh at this situation rings a little life into the situation.
I think that not only Oskar is becoming accepted with Ron, but I think he is also starting to accept his mom being with someone else that isn't his father. I think that Oskar is realizing this now because both his mom and Ron have been suffering from the loss of a loved one, and that they are both coping with one another.
DeleteI feel Oskar is trying to connect with Ron so he can find a new way of opening up to happiness. Oskar says, "It's OK if you fall in love again" (Foer 324). Here when he tells his mom this, she almost denies it afraid of ever finding happiness again. However I think Oskar's views have changed because of looking at the emptiness (void) of the coffin. In my idea/s, I feel he relates it to the love in his heart. With this, he hopes to re fill it by opening back up to the idea of love and happiness.
DeleteWhy did the grandpa decide to put the unread letters to Oskar's dad grave instead of giving them to Oskar or his mom?
ReplyDeleteWas getting rid of the letters a sign of moving on and starting a new life? What did getting rid of these letters mean to the grandpa?
I think that the grandfather didn't give the letters to the mom or Oskar because they were written to his son not to the mother/Oskar. I also think that he put the letters in the grave because he never had the courage to send them to his son and now, in a way, they could be with his son.
Delete"To my child: I wrote my last letter on the day you died, and I assumed I'd never write another word to you., I've been so wrong about so much that I've assumed, why am I surprised to feel the pen in my hand tonight?" (Foer 260). Based on this quote, I think that the grandfather wishes he could have spent more time with his son, and knowing now he's gone that he will never have that opportunity in a way. I think that in some way the grandfather was religious. You see people releasing balloons into the air when they hope it reaches a loved one. I think that this was his way of hoping he would receive the letters.
DeleteI think that the grandpa put the letters in the grave because they are to the dad and even though he can't read them, the grandpa might feel some weight off his shoulders that he gave them to his son. I think it also could've created a bond between the grandpa and son even though he died
Deleteon page 322, when the grandpa says "things i wasn't able to tell him. letters." why doesn't Oskar ask any questions about why he was never told?
ReplyDeleteI feel it is because Oskar relates to how the grandpa wasn't able to tell everything he wanted. If Oskar had known such a terrible event would happen to his father, then he would have told him an uncountable amount of things before his passing.
Delete"I don't want to be hospitalized"..."I'll be happy and normal"(323)
ReplyDeleteDoes this show Oskar's lack of trust towards his Mom after everything that happened with Ron because he doesn't believe that she'll let him live with her?
I don't feel that this shows Oskar's lack of trust towards his Mom. In my mind, I was relating this to how Oskar likes to invent different ideas, objects etc. What I was thinking was that because he has found that he needs to open up his mind to happiness again but doesn't know how to, he came up with the idea that he needed to be hospitalized.
DeleteThe end of the book was exactly how I would imagine such a sad book would be only because I feel like the main character always finds a form of closure or finds a sense of realization. It reminds me of The Outsiders because after Johnny and Dallas died, Ponyboy was crushed but after reading the letter Johnny left he had a sense of relief and peace and so I imagine Oskar did after his journey and finding out more about his Dad
ReplyDeletethe outsiders is a really good connection to this book --
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ReplyDeleteAfter reading this book, do you think Oscar has learned more about himself and how to cope with the death of his dad? Or do you think he will keep inventing?
ReplyDeleteHe will keep inventing because that's who he his, hopefully he will start using his intuitive nature for good and not for sadness, or a way of coping.
DeleteOn page 325 it says, "Finally, I found the pictures of the falling body. Was it Dad? Maybe. Whoever it was, it was somebody." I think that this section of the book shows that he is starting to cope with the death of his dad more because he knows that his Dad died somehow. I also think he will stop inventing because he has come to terms that his dad died.
Deletedo you think Oskar will start trusting Ron more? we never saw too much of him throughout the book, but when he started to talk about the accident with his family it seemed really important. will Oskar start to understand him and let him in?
ReplyDeleteI believe so because Oskar can now relate something to Ron besides just the fact that he has a relationship with his Mom who just went through a recent loss. He may feel more compassion for him because he now knows what he's been through and how maybe Ron is desperate for love now.
DeleteDo you believe Oskar completed the Hero's Journey and if not how was it different?
ReplyDeleteI do think that Oskar completed the Hero's Journey. He had a call to an adventure by finding what the key goes to. He met a mentor such as A.R. Black. Met new helping people to encourage him to not give up and good luck. He had challenges. And did come back by having peace with himself and having a good last memory with his dad.
DeleteWhat in society has changed people's ideas to thinking that it is better to lose than to never have had, why?
ReplyDeleteI think it could be because when you lose something and you're sad, you know that it was a good thing and you had something that you really cared about. if you wouldve never had it, you'd be missing out on something that could've made you really really happy.
DeleteI think in many different cases it just depends. To relate to this book, someone may have said this to Oskar to realize that there are people in the world who also do not have a father; but Oskar got the opportunity to have a father when others cannot.
DeleteHow does Oskar re-ordering the pictures relate to the idea of his character being an 'angel' due to him wearing white?
ReplyDeleteKind of going back first, I think that Oskar is an angel because he wants the best for everyone around him. He invents things that would be able to help a whole community, it takes a big person to want to do that stuff, and actually attempt to do so. Going off of that, I think that Oskar could be seen as angel like because he tries to make things so in reverse and make people 'fly'. It shows that if we could control things and help a lot of people, and therefore shows some angel like qualities.
DeleteI think that after the renter and Oskar buried the letters, Oskar let go of the secretive life he tried (and failed) to hide from the mother. ""Don't you want to know where I was?"" (Foer 322) Oskar was not afraid to tell his mother where he was, and It did not appear that he was going to lie. You can tell that in this scene he feels at least a little bit better about the events he's gone through.
ReplyDelete"why did I trust him so much?" PG 322
ReplyDeleteDo you think Oskar was beginning to open up to people? was he ready to push down his barriers and his walls since his dad's death?
Or maybe he sensed their deeper relationship and not their relationship of grandson and renter?
DeleteI feel as if Oskar had felt a sort of connection to what his grandfather had said. He had explained about how there had been so many things he was not able to tell his son, which in a way Oskar could relate to with the idea of hiding the telephone. Since the grandfather had left that had been a huge mistake in being apart of Oskar's fathers life, this could equally go hand and hand with not picking up the phone when Oskar's father called. Oskar explains earlier something to the effect of wanting to pick up the phone and tell his father I love you, however something was holding him back from telling him.
DeleteWhen it says, “And then I wanted to tell her about the phone” (324). Why doesn't he tell her about the phone even after she tells him that he called her at work?
ReplyDeleteI think that Oskar doesn't tell his mom about the home phone because the dad left messages for the mom on her cell and the messages on the home phone were meant for Oskar not the mom
Deletethis is what I was wondering too. he had the chance to tell her, could it be because he doesn't want her to be upset? or he just wants it to be between him and his dad?
DeleteIt seems like Oskar has wanted to keep his relationship with his Dad a secret throughout the book and this can just be another example of him doing so.
DeleteI agree that the father left those messages for Oskar, like Sienna said, he called the mothers phone too. that's why he sounded so calm and at peace.
Delete"To be honest, I don't think I figured out that he was my grandpa, not even in the deep parts of my brain. I definitely didn't make the connections between the letters in his suitcases and the envelopes in grandmas dresser, even if I should have." PAGE 322
ReplyDelete- Do you think Oskar has the mentality to only recognize what he thinks will be useful to him? or now since his journey is over, will he be more open?
I would say that since Oskar is not preoccupied with finding the lock that his key opens anymore, he is able to focus on more things. Also his mind is more open now as well because he is not dedicating all of his magnificent brain power to one thing.
Delete"That wasn't part of our plan, and neither were replacement batteries, even though they obviously should have been. How could I have forgotten something so simple and important?" (Foer 319).
ReplyDelete-How could Oskar forgetting something so simple yet important relate to his relationship with his mother after his father's death?
I believe so but I think that he could also stop believing what those around him tell him and become far more skeptical than he was before the journey.
DeleteIf you were the dad, would you have lied and told the mom that you were out on the street or would you have told her the truth? And if you were the mom would you be upset that your husband lied to you right before you died even though you knew he was trying to comfort you?
ReplyDeleteIf I was in the fathers position I would have told the truth about everything. I would especially tell them how much I care for them and how much they mean to me.
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ReplyDeleteI think this ending wasn't the the most suspenseful or a cliff hanger but it was an accurate representation of lives of the families that had a loved one in 9/11. Families are never going to be the same and they can have happiness but I don't think a family will ever be AS happy as they were before the accident. At the end of the book Oskar has finally come to terms with his father's death even though he will be sad for a long time. Also the search led to a dead end but on page 287 Oskar admits he is no longer moving in the direction of dad when searching and I think that is because he side tracked from the ultimate goal and it became this obsession to find the treasure at the end of the rainbow. When he returns home and is with his mother, it's like he is peaceful.
ReplyDeleteWho do you think said this line and who are they talking about? "I told her because I wanted her to believe me and understand, and because I thought I owed it to her, and to myself, and to you, or was it just more selfishness?"
ReplyDeleteWhen Oskar said on page 306, "It was your grandfather." (Foer 306) Do you think he knew what his grandfather looked like before?
ReplyDelete"I found him in the international terminal. He was sitting at a table with his hands on his knees. I watched him all morning. He asked people what time it was, and each person pointed at the clock on the wall. I have been an expert at watching him. It's been my life's work. From my bedroom window. From behind trees. From across the kitchen table. I wanted to be with him. Or anyone." (Foer 309) Does Oskar know his grandpa was the renter?
ReplyDeleteOn page 311, it says, "I buried the key, too. What key? To your apartment. Our apartment." Was this the key that Oskar was trying to figure out what went to something?
ReplyDeleteDo you think the way Oskar tells his grandfather about how he dreamt things were reversed from the day of the attack, connects in a way of the last picture in the book showing the man falling from the sky and how he is going backwards? "At the end of my dream, Eve put the apple back on the branch. The tree went back into the ground. It became a sapling, which became a seed. God brought together the land and the water, the sky and the water, the water and the water, evening and morning, something and nothing. He said, Let there be light. And there was darkness." (Foer 313)
ReplyDelete