1. Warming up with a crash course on Hamlet
- Read "Hamlet in a nutshell"
- In your journal or in your ELIC Google folder, spend some time listing possible parallels (strong similarities) between the play Hamlet and Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. In particular, what conflicts do Oskar and Hamlet share?
- Read/act out Act 5, scene 1 from Hamlet using No Fear Shakespeare (pages 8 and 9).
- What's Hamlet struggling with in this scene?
- How might his struggle relate to Oskar's struggles?
3. Enjoying Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close Discussion #2: Pages 86-141
4. Wrapping up with takeaways/reflections
HW:
1. For Tuesday: Read pages 174-207 in Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close; complete your journal entry.
If you miss a Fishbowl or Socratic, you must make it up. Fishbowl: Read over the syllabus and blog comments, then add an extended comment to the class blog. Socratic: Read over the syllabus and the class notes, then add an extended comment to the class blog.
If you miss a Fishbowl or Socratic, you must make it up. Fishbowl: Read over the syllabus and blog comments, then add an extended comment to the class blog. Socratic: Read over the syllabus and the class notes, then add an extended comment to the class blog.
2. We will continue our READING JOURNAL CONFERENCES next Monday. Click HERE for the rubric.
3. THIS FRIDAY IS THE END OF 6 WEEKS. All make-up work from the first 6 weeks must be submitted by Monday, Oct 2. After Monday, any grade in IC will remain as is.
After meeting with the old man Oskar was sad that his father wasn't in the notes and how he didn't leave much of a legacy with his death. In this scene of Hamlet he talks a little bit about how people are remember when they die and what happens to them.
ReplyDeleteOskar told his mom he doesn't want to be burried and wanted to be in a mausoleum and now I know it's because he doesn't want to end up being mud used for useless things. Also Oskar thinks his dad is the greatest in the world and he knows his dad is used for nothing important on earth now.
ReplyDeleteOskar's father's stuff become junk to others once he died. Oskar doesn't want to accept that. This is shown by how resistant he is to throwing out his dad's razor.
ReplyDeleteYeah Oskar put a lot of importance on some of the objects his dad kept. He said something along the lines of his father had kept them around for some reason, so why shouldn't they
DeleteThis related to extremely loud and incredibly close because just thinking about how Oskar has been his hard with the death of his father he can still create something wonderful and find out what this key opens, just like the dust of Alexander the great can build a wall.
ReplyDeleteOskar's Dad was considered a great man to him, and after his death, it almost seemed like the Mom has forgotten about him and moved on as if he were dust.
ReplyDeleteThis is definitely one of the reasons as to why Oskar has been so sad lately and angry with his Mom's decisions.
i think Oskar is struggling with thinking about how we all die in the end, like when he met the old man and the man had a notecard for people he thought were important, but he didn't have a notecard for Oskar's dad. Oskar believed that his dad was extremely important, but i think he's realizing that we all die and end up the same
ReplyDeleteHow is it that in that particular speech in Hamlet that Mr. Black's (who lived a level directly above Oskar), beliefs are completely different?
ReplyDeleteIn Hamlet it talks about how peoples legacies carry out even after their deaths. Oskar talks to his mother about how Thomas's memories and spirit flows everywhere. When people talk or breath his spirit is there.
ReplyDeleteis this something that oskar connects himself to the author in Hamlet, because he wants to have an impact in the hopes that when he dies that his spirit flows and that he will be remember?
DeleteThe connections between Hamlet and Oskar, is definitely the emotional side of things. lots of anger and disappointment also. The father and the mother situations also play a role in him connecting himself to the Author.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like Oskar is genuinely worried about his dad's legacy being lost after his death. Because Oskar's dad was such a big part of his life, he feels like everyone should remember him and acknowledge the lift he lived. When people act as if they have already moved on from his dad's death, it makes him sad and angry as he currently thinks he may never fully get over the death of his dad.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think this shows about Oskar's maturity?
DeleteHamlet and Oskar are both thinking about death, and where they will end up. Oskar talks about in the book how he doesn't want to end up in the ground.
ReplyDeleteits confusing because i feel as if he has suicide thoughts, but logically he doesn't want to die -- maybe a cry for help?
DeleteHamlet relates to the book because when hamlet is talking about Alexander's ashes being used to stop a beer barrel, it sounds like something Oscar's logical mind would lead to.
ReplyDeleteOskar also talked about how he doesnt want his decomposed body to be used for mud or some useful purpose.
DeleteHamlet talks about how Alexander the Great died and returned to dirt and dust. Once you're dead, you don't matter anymore. In ELIC Oskar is upset that people don't know his dad, but to other's, his father's life/death was insignificant.
ReplyDeletei think he wants to make an impact - good or bad. just as long as he gets remember because of how his mother views his father (doesn't really talk about him) and how shes been associating herself with Ron.
DeleteHamlet has a lot of questions about his farther's death, so does Oskar. They don't really have all of the details that they want about their death and that the fact that the empty coffin adds to the questions.
ReplyDeletepossibly they never got any information for the longest time - since in the beginning of the book oskar said his mother put up "lost" pictures of his father ?
DeleteDrawing a connection, among the idea that there was an empty box for Oskar's Dad, Oskar feels as if everyone has moved on from the memories of his father. The idea of this comparing to Hamlet would be that since Alexander turned to dust, and had nothing left is a similar idea towards there being nothing of his father except for the memories around Oskar.
ReplyDeleteHow does Oskar push away his mom at the end of the chapter?
ReplyDeleteHow Oskar pushes his mom away is when he said " If I could have chosen, I would have chosen you!"(pg 171). What Oskar said it really impacted his mom. Oskar said what he meant out loud but he did not mean it in the end because he realized how much it hurt his mother. His mother realized that Oskar's dad is more important than she is. The connection that Oskar had with his dad would never compare to the connection with his mother. Maybe she is thinking that she will never be that person to Oskar. So that is why she is being pushed away from Oskar.
Deletei wonder if oskar is not letting his mother in -- she might of been trying and trying, but from his point of view as an eight year old boy that was not enough. children interpret things differently, and this is also from oskars point of view not his mother, so its difficult to say.
Delete"I keep smashing the skull against his skull, which is RON's skull (for letting MOM get on with life) and MOM's skull (for getting on with life) and DAD's skull (for dying) and GRANDMA's skull (for embarrassing me so much) and DR. FEIN's skull (for asking if any good could come out of DAD's death) and the skulls of everyone else I know" (Foer 146).
ReplyDelete- How does this show contrast between Oskar's angel like qualities?
- Is this a way of showing Oskar moving on with the baggage that is crushing his soul?
i think this shows how Oskar really feels and how he isn't innocent and pure like the white clothes. i think it shows that he can be violent and angry too
Deletethe stages of grief -- possibly he is tying to comprehend the anger part and this might be a way for him to move on
DeleteI think that it is his way to realizing the anger, even if it is just mentally and not physically.
DeleteWhy did Oskar feel like it was okay to start beating up Jimmy?
ReplyDeletebut he didn't, "it would have been great." Foer pg 147
DeleteI do not think Oscar is in a good emotional place right now. He had an outburst on his Mom at the end of the chapter because of all of the pent up emotion inside of him. The sudden end of a good friend in the form of Oscar's father is a massive set back in life. Oscar does not know how to express his emotion in his present state, so he just fantasizes or dreams a solution in his mind.
Oh, my apologies. I didn't catch that in the book, but I do really like how you explained it though. Thank you
Deletedoes the key represent hope?
ReplyDeleteIt definitely represents hope for Oskar to find out more about his father but he knows nothing will bring his Dad back which will most likely stick with him for the rest of his journey.
DeleteI feel as if the key represents almost the "lock" towards bad memories and possibly moving on. It seems as if the key is the only way to move on and proceed life with joy. Then, this key will also help with the idea that "So many people enter and leave your life! Hundreds of thousands of people! You have to keep the door open so they can come in! But also means you have to let them go!" (Foer 153). Therefore as his father 'leaves' Oskar will hopefully create new relationships.
DeleteIt might also have something to do with the advice Oskar received from his dad to "not stop looking". The key could represent a search that goes on forever without a clear answer.
DeleteI think that the key does represent hope for Oskar. This key helps him find a sense of peace and purpose. This key helps him to climb out of his grieving for his farther's death. He has this motivation to keep moving forward and not looking back on his farther's death.
DeleteI like what Percy said about a search that goes on without a clear answer, but what would be the point of a search that doesn't end? Why would Oskar's dad try so hard to create such a search?
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DeleteI think the key represents his father. Since they couldn't find his father after words, Oskar was really impacted about it. It bothered him so much with the idea that they buried an empty box. He must of had thought that he had to be the one to find his dad. With his dad leaving the clues behind it can give him the idea that he is finding his father on his own.
Delete"It was twelve weekends earlier that I'd gone ti visit Abe black in Coney island." Foer pg 147
ReplyDeleteHow much longer do you think Oscar can keep this investigation going without his mother or Grandmother finding out? Also, when do you think Oscar is going to find a breakthrough and how?
I don't think that Oskar can go much farther in his investigation without his family finding out, considering he's gone almost all the time. As for Oskar finding a breakthrough, I think that he might end up finding a breakthrough in a way he doesn't expect it.
DeleteI don't think that Oskar's mother is going to find out because she doesn't seem too involved in his life. I think the Grandma on the other hand will find out but will help him find where the key goes too. But I think the grandma knows where the key goes too. But she won't tell Oskar because this journey is basically his only source of happiness right now.
DeleteI think he can't go that much further without his mom and grandma finding out. I think the grandmother will find out before the mother, since the mother is usually busy or not with Oskar, and he spends more time with his grandmother.
DeleteI'm not really sure if the mom would ever even find out, as far as Oskars perspective in the book shes always gone and is never really that concerned with what hes doing, if anything i feel like the Grandma would find out first.
DeleteI think in someway they already know, or at least one of them. I think that Oskar seems like the type of kid that would have a very difficult time stopping something that he started, and maybe they know, but also know they can't stop him until he has all of the answers.
DeleteHow does Oskar pushing away his mother affect his behavior and mentality? what does it show about him and his character? From the beginning of the book up to where we currently are, has Oskar's character grown/changed due to grief, or the journey he's begun?
ReplyDeleteIt shows that Oskar is losing a stable behavior and mental state. It shows a lack of maturity towards his mother that has grown throughout the book with more and more failures throughout his journey. But in a way she deserves it because of what she has done to Oskar after something so terrible happened to their family.
DeleteI would agree with this. I believe that it shows that Oskar is becoming more and more of an angry character. His actions are becoming more forceful, and while he is becoming more confident in public situations and talking to others, each failure and dead end leaves him more frustrated and lost than before. He also does not have anyone to talk to about his dad so he is forced to fight his sadness by himself without any outer force to guide him.
Deletewhy does A.R. say that all rocks are not just rocks, but all bullets are just bullets? does that have something to do with the key and what it unlocks?
ReplyDeleteRelating this back to A.R, all rocks are not just rocks in his opinion because rocks are natural made things with different imperfections made through mother nature's processes. All bullets are just bullets because these are man made things that do are not made naturally. Therefore in my opinion, I feel as if rocks are similar to human kind and how everyone appears differently with different perfections but at the same time we are all so similar to each other.
DeleteWhen Oskar says "It's just that why would you have one for him and not for my dad?"...."My dad was good. Mohammed Atta was evil." Is this quote directly representing Oskar's arrogance and immaturity because of his impatience to find more about his Dad?
ReplyDeleteWith the use of the quote, it seems as if it represents more of a loss of hope than the idea of immaturity. Through this past chapter it explains how Oskar wants Mr. Black who lived upstairs to help find the key. However, he does explain that basically Oskar is still on the A's and he's having no luck. Therefore, in this quote when he realizes someone is so evil that is in the collection and his dad is not, Oskar does not want his memories of his dad to be corrupted with evil so he bluntly says his dad was good.
DeleteDue to what has happened to Oskar's father, is the reason why he acts out a way of grieving in a way?
ReplyDeleteGrieving and sadness is definitely a result of the tragedy in his family but I believe that once he finds the key, these problems will disappear quickly.
DeleteIt seems as if through 170-172, when Oskar crosses out his moods and changes them so quickly crosses with the idea of grieving. He is just so young that Oskar seems as if he can not comprehend death and the percussions from that. When you compare Oskar to his mother, his mom wants to move on and not mope around in this even though that is very harsh, she is trying to find a new light in her life. Oskar doesn't like that his mom is moving on so quickly and through when he fights with his mom in the last few pages, he changes his mood to incredibly alone because his mom and him have different viewpoints that affect their relationship.
DeleteWhy do you think that other people's happiness can bother unhappy people?
Deleteon page 142 it talks about how oskar compares his classmates to having ADD -- does he have any other possible medical conditions?
ReplyDeleteI read a book during freshman year called "the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime" which was about an autistic kid in Britain who starts investigating a neighbor's dead dog. He starts asking around trying to find out who did it, just like Oscar. Also, the kid dislikes contact and people, he hates crowds. His adventures took him all across London, just like Oscar's quest around New York. Both of these happened because Oscar and the kid from the other book were obsessed with a single goal, just like most Autistic kids get into, they can set sights on something and not so anything else except working towards their goal. So my conclusion, and a thought that I've had since first reading the book is that Oscar is most defiantly autistic even thought the book does not say it outright, although it alludes to it many times throughout the book.
DeleteThis is an amazing connection to ELIC. I started that book and I never finished for some reason. This connection makes me want to finish so I can compare the two books
DeleteOskar could have ADD and possibly aspergers. Aspergers can lead to both increased and decreased socialization and often times can lead to obsession with certain topics.
Deletewhy does Oskar not want to be compared to his dad or grandpa? he loved his dad and he knew that his dad was smart and nice, so why does he see it as bad?
ReplyDeleteOskar doesn't want to be compared to his dad or grandpa because he doesn't want to be reminded of them and spiral into a depression of not having their presence. Since Oskar is so young, he wants his own opinion/s and ideas to become his own person. It has nothing to do with Oskar's relationship with his dad or his idea of the grandpa.
DeleteOne of my main questions at this point in the book is, why is the mom so distant with Oskar? She is more willing to spend time with her boyfriend Ron and when issues come up with her son she consistently doesn't even want to be apart of it like on page 171. "She looked at me for a second, then stood up and walked out of the room." In this sentence it made me wonder why she doesn't really care to work things out with Oskar? She would just rather avoid him and push off his questions.
ReplyDeleteI think she was trying to grieve in her own way of her husbands death because if she didn't have Ron, she would've reacted differently has anyone would. It's like Oskar with the key trying to search for where this key belonged in order to get closure to with what had happened to his Dad.
DeleteI think that the mom is secretly grieving a lot too. I feel that Ron is basically her escape and he helps relieve her pain. Oskar and his dad had a really close relationship and Oskar most likely followed his footsteps personality wise. At the beginning of the book, the mom said how Oskar reminded her a lot of his dad. With that, she distances herself from Oskar because she gets a lot memories from the dad. With the memories it doesn't help her healing process.
Deleteshe might be lost -- from a parents point of view, yes she should be spending more time with her son and trying to be more apart of her life.its hard to put off all the pressure on the mother because the way that he treats her is not necessarily the best. shes in a difficult situation.
DeleteI think The mother's actions have more to do with her trying to deal with her husband's death.
DeleteI think in someways that she is trying to show her strength after her husbands death. I think that in a way she is trying to show Oskar that she is strong. I think that people would presume that after the death of your husband that you would just crumble, and in many ways I think she is creating a shell in a way that won't make her look weaker. I think that's why she's keeping her distance from Oskar, he might make her break.
DeleteI believe this is in the scene where he said that he wished she had died instead. She probably left without saying a word because she couldn't bring herself to say anything. That's a pretty powerful statement coming from her kid.
DeleteHow is Oskar's personality similar to the idea of someone putting others before themselves?
ReplyDeleteExample: "My boots were so heavy that I was glad there was a column underneath us. How could such a lonely person have been living so close to me my whole life? If I had known, I would have gone up to keep him company" (Foer 156).
I feel like Oskar is a lot different than other boys his age, he genuinely cares about the people around him. I believe that Oskar has not had the easiest time with people, and therefore wants to bring kindness into the world. I also think that he like to make friends, and had he known that Mr. A was alone, that he would have made friends with him sooner.
DeleteDo you think that the key will lead back to the Grandma's renter? Does the grandma have knowledge on where the key goes to?
ReplyDeleteI think the renter could know where the key goes and maybe have something with the lock. I think that could be why the renter is such a mysterious figure and he's mentioned so much in the book.
Deleteif she did have knowledge of the key she might not let him know until hes older and more mature.
DeleteI think the key goes to Abby, her husband. Because if she thought it was her husbands then she would have asked him either way if he did or did not know about it.
DeleteI don't think it would go back to the renter, because if it did, I feel like the grandma would already know about it.
DeleteAny predictions for the end of the book??
ReplyDeleteBesides Oskar finding where the key goes, I think some characters will come out such as who the Grandpa really is and maybe the Mom will break of ties with Ron.
DeleteI think the renter will become more involved and I think Oskar and his mom will start to work on their relationship and become closer to each other since Thomas isn't there anymore
DeleteI think Oskar will find what he's looking for but in a way, I feel like there is a catch to it. I can't explain it but I believe it involves getting closure with his Dad's passing
DeleteI personally think that Oskar founds out who the renter is. I also think we get to know more about his dad and maybe more information if they had a funeral for him or not. I have a prediction that Oskar and his mom get to know each other more, and maybe Oskar will open up to his mom. I think more photos and hints that Oskar has found, he puts the puzzle together and discovers more about his dad and what he left him.
DeleteOn page 168, why did the author add message three from Oskar's father? What idea does this relate to this section of the story?
ReplyDeletedo you think that the author wanted to leave oskars mental condition a mystery? on page 99 you can tell that oskar has a hard time talking to people in general but he also says things that are offensive, even though he doesn't know that it is offensive.
ReplyDeleteIn the mother's words after their fight on page 172, going deeper with her response, why do you think the mom chooses to use the word hurt and not angry?
ReplyDelete